“One of the most “interesting” food related news in Vancouver is that of rumours/hearsay/almost certain that Vancouver City Hall will be allowing street food vendors to expand their menu by allowing other dishes (aside from the current chestnut and hot dogs menu). So far, pretty much every body sounds excited about this… Probably except me. See, Toronto tried it some time ago and, as somebody mentioned, it was doomed to failure. While I haven’t read the full details yet whether restrictions that plagued Toronto will happen also in Vancouver, some entrepreneurs are almost ready to go ahead. So, why I am not as optimistic as them?
See, after living in Vancouver for all these years, there are things I have learned, things I have observed and, then again, things I have experienced first hand when you live in a city where there is actual street food. In the case of Vancouver, I believe there is a combination of issues that creates a scenario it will fail. Here are some reasons why I believe that will happen (some of these reasons suggested to me by Sherman in a series of conversations we had):
1) Location… It is needless to say that Vancouver, for the most part, is really segregated into commercial, residential and industrial areas. Sure, you have your strip malls here and there but, except for minor cases where they are partially mixed (like the West End), it is quite evident you are in one or the other. This creates several problems:
- Street vendors must go where business is, which translates into commercial areas (on weekdays) and leisure areas (on weekends) and, in the case of Vancouver, during weekdays there are only a handful of pockets places for this, namely, Downtown Vancouver and parts of the Broadway corridor. One of the issues in these areas is that there are already established restaurants and chances are they won’t want a huge concentration, as it is almost a direct competition to their business. After all, chances are they pay way more taxes than street vendors…
- Even if there is an adequate location for them to establish, there is only that much space available before they run into green areas and/or there is enough critical mass to support their business (specially if there are several ones next to each other). Take for example, English Bay. Currently, there are some hot dog stands which, by themselves, cause no problem to pedestrian traffic. If you were to increase these, to a certain extent, it is still doable. However, one or two swallows don’t make summer so by the time you have “enough”, it will cause problems to pedestrian traffic.
- If the option is go mobile, i.e., inside a truck, you can only stay in one spot before their (free?) parking time runs out. While that might be part of the “fun” trying to find that particular truck, it also adds to frustration if I want to have a fix of such food.
- A workaround that has been mentioned is that of using parking lots, similar to what Tenku Bakudanyaki do/did. True, that is technically possible but, at the same time, you run into two issues: parking spots in Vancouver are limited and where? I mean, if they put that in the middle of nowhere, how many customers will be willing to go there (in my opinion, Vancouver does not have the driving mentality as in the US).
2) Acceptance of street vendors. I will put it bluntly: most people in Vancouver aren’t that used to eating street food in a street environment – and that is despite all the Japadog hype. Similar to point #1 above, there are several reasons.
- Weather. Let’s face it, this is Vancouver. In a way, we are the laughing stock when it comes to our weather. If temperature hits 30C, we complain it is too hot. If a couple of centimetre of snow falls, the city is semi-paralyzed. A small shower and people complain it is “raining”. With this weather mentality, do you really want to be queueing up for street food, when it rains, is too sunny (OK, probably you might for this) or it snows?
- “Cleanliness”. In the end of the movie Demolition Man, John Spartan (Sylvester Stallone’s character), tells one of the characters “why don’t you get a little dirty” and another of the characters “you a lot clean“. I will make no apologies and say that a lot of people here are clean freaks and, well, guess which side of that dialogue they are? If you are such person (like most North Americans), do you think street food is clean? Take, for example, New York, which is sort of a mecca for street food has cleanliness issues of its own (check here, of course, with the caveat it is American “investigative” news and might be an exception rather than the general rule). But, then again, a lot of people override those thoughts when there is (cheap? good?) food in front of them… And, since we are in the movies motif, “You’ve got to ask yourself one question: ‘Do I feel lucky?’ Well, do ya, punk?” As for me, having had my fare share of such food type, I dare to say that getting sick is part of the experience.
- $$$. To put it bluntly, how much are you willing to pay? What is the threshold where you draw the line and say street food is expensive? After all, in certain parts of the world, there is a correlation that street food is cheap. Given the cost of setting up such business in Vancouver, there is a thin line where suddenly your goods might be too expensive. Currently, my threshold is ~CDN $5 (probably add an additional $1). If it is more, I might as well go to a restaurant and order takeout.
- Cuisine. This might be sort of an odd one. What cuisine would be workable in a Vancouver environment? After all, you want something different (i.e., not something you can go to a restaurant) yet something that can attract customers plus something you can eat on the streets. Most people are asking tacos but, c’mon!
Now, here is the odd thing… While I mentioned I am pessimistic, that pessimism has an O’toole’s commentary (Murphy is an optimist) side attached to it, i.e., I actually want to see this type of food in Vancouver. But, in my opinion, for this to be successful, I believe a hawker centre like environment rather than a street food environment is the way to go. For example, during the Olympics, there was such place near Plaza of Nations. And, currently, we have Richmond’s/Summer Night Market. Why? Because instead of having them going around town, have one dedicated place solely for this purpose. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a good place for this in Vancouver per se (as mentioned in one of the points above), other than Granville Street, since they are sections closed for traffic, not to mention there are plans by Vancouver City Hall to close it completely on weekends during summer. Possible? Yes. Willing? Who knows…
In the end, time will tell if these are really crazy thoughts. Will it change the food panorama of Vancouver? Unless there is sort of an earth shattering offering, a lot of cultures are well represented already so I don’t think that will happen. But, hey, this is an opportunity for change and it is now up to the applicants…
{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }
I was at the Richmond Summer Market last night and there was a food mobile truck that will be going around town. It was named Dragon something. It seems to be along the concept of the kalbi truck in LA and offers kalbi tacos, pork fat sliders, etc.
I tried the fried rice balls (ok) and the tacos (not bad). The price point was $6 each or 2 for $10 or 3 for $15. I found it odd that the cooks/owners were 2 caucasian guys but they had a couple of asian girls all decked out taking orders. Kind of weird if you ask me.
Anyways, I probably won’t be following this truck around town for their food.
Well thought-out analysis, Kim.
I was excited when I heard that the City was thinking of expanding its street food program, but when I heard more and looked at the details of what they were actually proposing, my excitement got dampened. The new locations they have proposed: I don’t know — speaking as someone who has a street menu in mind, the locations don’t sound too enticing. I don’t want to be standing on the curb of those seemingly dead streets watching my food grow cold and unappetizing through the day. With the set-up the City has proposed, all I can see in the future is overpriced, mediocre street food.
I think that Vancouver does not have the critical mass to support street food types of establishments. They way the City is set up, we’re probably a couple of million people short for a thriving street food culture. At this point, I’m not feeling too optimistic.
I sort of had the idea that it will be a wild, wild West kind of thing, where vendors can just get permits, get inspected for safety, and then be allowed to sell whatever and wherever they want. That seemed like the practical, commonsensical approach to me. At this point, they want you to be tied to a curb, can’t move, can’t go to where the people are — come on! If the City wants to charge $2400 a month (I read that somewhere) for a curbside location, with dubious traffic, then — well, we will indded get $6 dollar tacos, which is, sorry to say, beyond my price tolerance for tacos. Sorry to say, but maybe as with leaders and heroes, we get the street food we deserve. If people line up at Subway (not cheap, mind you), then maybe that is what we deserve. Am I being too pessimistic?
Hmmm, I’m also unsure about how “street food” will play out in Vancouver. If that Dragon truck is any indication, I think people here seem to think that that is what “street food” is all about; it seems a skewed view.
You have made good points. I agree. There are not enough people in Vancouver to be able to give street food a chance to survive, it seems. I don’t think the majority actually want to or are willing to eat good food that’s not “mainstream”.
@eatingclub vancouver
I disagree that Vancouver does not have the population to support a thriving street food scene. If you were one of the throngs of people last night at the Richmond summer market, most of the people were there for one thing, and that was food.
I think there a lot of foodies in Vancouver who would love to be able to get their fix of street food if it were available on a regular basis.
You’re right about the concept though. If the vendors were stuck to dodgy locations then I don’t think that would appeal to me either. I wish the city fathers could learn something from Portland, the street food capital of North America.
its called the roaming dragon and its my old head chefs buisiness. Nonetheless my idea was to do a dog stand offering skewers on a demibaguett with house made condimates. Probably won’t go through with it now considering I’m in school now for culinary arts.
Holly, I think JS’ line of thought is that, unless you have them congregated in one single location, which would then drive masses to that one place, having them spread out around town won’t work. I have plans to visit Portland soon; however, to me, when it comes to street food, NYC is the best place.
Scott, i.e., a souvlaki on a bun. Or, the Argentinian version, the choripan (a chorizo on a bun).
TS, from what I have read, yes, indeed, Roaming Dragon does not represent my idea of street food. Street food is NOT restaurant type food on the street.
JS, hey, I don’t mind going to Subway for a $6, 12″ sub! But, yeah, your points are quite valid. I guess time will tell…
I’m pretty pessimistic, too. Just be happy with what we’ve got!
I mean, take the Japanese deep-fried-dough-balls place stuck out in a parking lot in some godforsaken corner of Richmond, miles away from any pedestrian traffic… and the Roaming Dragon truck (the PF Chang’s of Vancouver street food)… and compare it to Crystal Mall’s food court or Richmond Public Market or, shoot, even the Aberdeen food court and those food courts/hawker centers are a lot more vibrant and interesting.
And, come on, for most of the year, for most of the city, Vancouver isn’t overflowing with pedestrians. It’s better than a lot of other North American cities, but a 99% of the city is big-ass roads with cars speeding by. That isn’t a great recipe for a vibrant street food culture.
DylanK, welcome! Again, I believe it is the hype more than anything else. Just as you mentioned, if people were more aware of these options, nobody would care about food carts/street food as much.
Location and operating hours are going to be important for these vendors to establish – if you’re expecting to find something at a specific location, when you don’t it’s offputting. (case in point, my intending to grab some ramen at Shoryumen on Saturday around noon only to find the parking lot empty – disappointing to say the least, and makes me wonder if I missed a memo on operating dates somewhere in all the blogging on these carts. Mind you, my ramen hunting skills aren’t very good; I keep going to the good places and finding them closed…)
I’m not a hugely adventurous eater, and avoid foods like hot dogs for health reasons. If we get some good, established and unique carts/trucks/stands that are offering a range of foods, I’ll be intrigued. Hopefully they can beat the challenges this post indicates. Great analysis, though – maybe the city will read it and get some ideas!
Tony, welcome! I think you give me far more credit than I deserve… But I will take them nonetheless!
Shoryumen used to be in the same place as Tenku Bakudanyaki, not far from the Richmond Oval; however, to my undestanding, they moved (along with Tenku and other similar shops) to a place “near” the IKEA in Richmond. The address should be 12831 Clarke Place.
Well, that explains things… kind of an out-of-the-way spot, but hey, it’s not right in downtown Traffic Mayhem City now, so that works. Thanks for the update!
I’m just scratching my head about what the City’s objective is in bringing street food a la Portland.
(1) Is it to make money for the City? Vendor permits, increase parking revenues, parking fines. . .and so on and so forth?
(2) Provide a more varied culinary landscape for residents and tourists?
(3) Bring “cheap” food for city residents?
(4) To be like Portland?
(5) Increase the City’s cool quotient? Who knows?
(6) Who knows what else?
If it’s #1, there must be a better way to generate more money for the City. Why ride on the backs of hardworking people just hoping to make a living?
If it’s #2 and #3, agree with DylanLK that Crystal Mall and other Asian mall food courts fit the bill most definitely. Cheap, good, fast food — where else can you get hand-pulled noodles, pulled by that same guy taking your order, for 6 bucks?
Let the vendors be, stop over-regulating and putting the City’s hand in every vendor’s pocket, and let people decide if they want to eat what’s on offer or not.
@DylanLK
I heard on the radio this morning that the licenses for street food vendors will range from around $1000 a year to more than $40,000 depending on the location. I’m wondering who exactly is going to pay 40 grand to sell satay or noodles from a cart or truck someplace in the city. Rather odd.
Tony, update about the location of the carts. According to Tenku Bakudanyaki’s site, they are now in 8740 Charles Street in Richmond. Go figure that. As for the range, I can’t say for certain… If it is $40,000, you might be more sucessful setting up a Timmy’s in a strip mall.
@KimHo
Doubt it, franchises are ridiculously expensive.
While I don’t agree with some of your assessments here, I’ve thought about the same net result due to what happened in Toronto.
J, for discussion sake, can you tell us what points do you disagree? As usual, what I wrote is my perspective and, at times, can be one-sided. I would be really interested in reading what others think!
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